tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post4551507685998582365..comments2023-08-25T16:10:39.880+01:00Comments on the dance of the elements: prayer of YeshuaYewtreehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-68628448777784178132011-06-20T23:16:00.894+01:002011-06-20T23:16:00.894+01:00Dear Kitt, it was a pleasure, and thanks for shari...Dear Kitt, it was a pleasure, and thanks for sharing about your payer life.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-53512811823334044052011-06-20T22:46:51.858+01:002011-06-20T22:46:51.858+01:00Thanks again for letting me share this prayer as t...Thanks again for letting me share this prayer as the grand finale for my post on <a href="http://jesusinlove.blogspot.com/2011/06/reimagining-god-father.html" rel="nofollow">Reimagining God the Father</a> at the Jesus in Love Blog. The prayer that Jesus taught is the heart of my personal prayer life, so I really appreciate your sensitive and beautiful expression of it.Kittredge Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02617858676733169316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-21694915587789603902010-06-14T11:24:50.683+01:002010-06-14T11:24:50.683+01:00Apparently "daily bread" is a mis-transl...Apparently "daily bread" is a mis-translation; it should be something more like "Give us this day our super-substantial bread" according to <a href="http://ht.ly/1XRoB" rel="nofollow">this</a>.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-16817709259395129192009-08-28T00:47:12.566+01:002009-08-28T00:47:12.566+01:00Thanks, Thora.Thanks, Thora.Paul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-72713326807030264252009-08-27T19:49:44.897+01:002009-08-27T19:49:44.897+01:00Paul-
this is the link to our church website- http...Paul-<br />this is the link to our church website- http://www.goodshepherdberkeley.org/.<br />if you look under "our life together", you will find a link to one liturgy that good shepherd created, and the circumstances under which it came about. (if you've got time, under that same section, i *highly* recommend any of the sermons or podcasts by bill countryman- he is a scholar and preacher without peer).<br />what i was referring to more though was our weekly eucharist, which is not, apparently, online. most of the changes are rather small, but it was felt that we needed a service that spoke to the concerns of the community, so, for example, we use inclusive language (never referring to God as "he", calling god "father and mother of us all", not using the words "lord" or "king" or "master"). also, our prayers of the people emphasize social justice concerns, environmental issues, and equality for all (about half our church, and more than half our clergy is gay or lesbian). the idea is not necessarily political correctness (though we get accused of that! :) but rather the idea that we needed to find new ways of communicating the divine in a way that more people can connect to it, rather than be alienated by it.<br />i'd also recommend clicking the link under "who we are" that talks about progressive christianity. i think it gives a good summary of what the church is about.Thora Appelgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00429351427801029883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-56226389579066225492009-08-27T19:21:09.324+01:002009-08-27T19:21:09.324+01:00I am comfortable with the words creation and creat...I am comfortable with the words creation and creature even though I do not believe in a Creator. Like Thora, I am comfortable with "creative process" of a purely natural kind. Perhaps it is linguistic atavism of a sort to continue to use "creature" in the absence of a Creator, but it implies no an belief in ontological transcendence. <br /><br />Thora, I would love to see your church's rewritten liturgy. Is there a print or online resource of this new liturgy?Paul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-40475467423228923372009-08-27T19:07:00.528+01:002009-08-27T19:07:00.528+01:00I know what you mean about creation - but I call i...I know what you mean about creation - but I call it emergence.<br /><br />Yes I remembered that you are a liberal Episcopalian. Good stuff.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-21073534023491837682009-08-27T18:44:02.820+01:002009-08-27T18:44:02.820+01:00epistemological.
i suppose i do believe in a crea...epistemological. <br />i suppose i do believe in a creator, though perhaps not the traditional idea of one, but even if you don't, everything around us was created. whether by self or by natural process or by deity, its atoms moved into formation in some way which could be called "creation".<br />"in the name of the lover, the beloved, and the love overflowing" is the common dismissal at my church- i attend a very liberal episcopalian church that has rewritten most of their liturgy to address what they feel are the concerns and theologies of the congregation, and that's one of the pieces they created. i've always found it very appealing. glad you like it too. :)Thora Appelgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00429351427801029883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-9936703166626016152009-08-27T18:34:23.955+01:002009-08-27T18:34:23.955+01:00I like it, Thora!
Is that ontological or epistemo...I like it, Thora!<br /><br />Is that ontological or epistemological <a href="http://pagantheologies.pbworks.com/Transcendence" rel="nofollow">transcendence</a>?<br /><br />I personally don't use the word creation (because I don't believe in a creator) but if it speaks to you...<br /><br />I also really like your "lover, beloved and love overflowing" in the last line.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-50504134520814938142009-08-27T17:39:04.490+01:002009-08-27T17:39:04.490+01:00yewtree-
thanks very much for the links- they were...yewtree-<br />thanks very much for the links- they were fascinating. i'll have to ask my unitarian friend if she has been to one of these services, and if so, what she thought of it.<br /><br />anyway, here's my stab at the re-write- hope you like it!<br /><br />Manifestation of Transcendent Joy,<br />we glory in the existence of all creation.<br />may your spirit touch all hearts,<br />moving all persons past self into divine mystery,<br />that the pure joy of unfettered Love may surpass all other cares.<br />Uncover our eyes, that we may see the abundance which surrounds us.<br />Loose our hands and tongues from the words and actions which bind us in knots of pain.<br />Spark our wisdom, that we may move toward you, and help us to see all things as they truly are.<br />May we walk in beauty, harmony, and peace in all the worlds.<br />In the name of the Lover, the Beloved, and the Love Overflowing.<br />Amen.Thora Appelgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00429351427801029883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-33122100130477806752009-08-27T17:10:53.730+01:002009-08-27T17:10:53.730+01:00I've posted it on my blog now (with a link bac...I've posted it on <a href="http://innerlight-radiantlife.blogspot.com/2009/08/prayer-for-21st-century.html" rel="nofollow">my blog</a> now (with a link back here too, of course).Paul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-88489217726700325652009-08-27T16:45:56.588+01:002009-08-27T16:45:56.588+01:00Ooohhh, like the dependent arising in Buddhism. A...Ooohhh, like the dependent arising in Buddhism. Also the primordial sea in Kabbalah. Excellent.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-79827182463231494102009-08-27T16:43:55.141+01:002009-08-27T16:43:55.141+01:00Make that fifth line:
Cosmos rises from the sea o...Make that fifth line:<br /><br />Cosmos rises from the sea of chaosPaul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-75627574856037185602009-08-27T16:43:19.251+01:002009-08-27T16:43:19.251+01:00Fabulous! I particularly like "We receive me...Fabulous! I particularly like "We receive mercy only as we make a society where we extend mercy". How true. Are you going to post it on your blog?<br /><br />As a result of your first feedback, I am thinking about putting the word 'nourish' in my replacement lines for the daily bread bit.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-33593687966359491072009-08-27T16:38:21.604+01:002009-08-27T16:38:21.604+01:00I was thinking of chaos of the primordial kind and...I was thinking of chaos of the primordial kind and the psychological kind - standing in opposition to the possibility of cosmos and life - not as the fractal kind. But I'll revise.<br /><br />About life and entropy, though... I believe the physical function of life is to speed the path toward entropy rather than to halt it.<br /><br />So, TAKE II:<br /><br /><br />Cosmos, beloved parent distant and serene<br />We inscribe your mystic name on all reality <br />Cosmos, beloved parent nearer than our breath<br />We inscribe our earthen names on your heart<br />Cosmos stands on the foundation of chaos<br /><br />We receive nourishment of food and culture though we create neither<br />We receive mercy only as we make a society where we extend mercy<br />May we overcome the elements of our nature that hurt ourselves and others<br /><br />We stand in awe before unfathomable Cosmic greatness <br />Cosmos stands on the ground of chaos through all time<br /><br />So may it bePaul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-46686041769954597522009-08-27T16:20:49.600+01:002009-08-27T16:20:49.600+01:00I like it very much, except for one thing. Chaos ...I like it very much, except for one thing. Chaos is good (in the modern sense of chaos, as in chaos theory, which demonstrates the fractal forms of all life and growth).<br /><br />How about, "the emergence of life prevents the cosmos decaying into entropy"?Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-9828680763848392572009-08-27T16:17:28.174+01:002009-08-27T16:17:28.174+01:00Your exercise on the got me thinking, Yewtree. And...Your exercise on the got me thinking, Yewtree. And so, here is my first draft of my version of the Our Father:<br /><br /><br />Cosmos, beloved parent distant and serene<br />We inscribe your mystic name on all reality <br />Cosmos, beloved parent nearer than our breath<br />We inscribe our earthen names on your heart<br /><br />Cosmos stands secure against chaos<br />We receive nourishment of food and culture though we create neither<br />We receive mercy only as we make a society where we extend mercy<br />May we overcome the elements of our nature that hurt ourselves and others<br /><br />We stand in awe before unfathomable Cosmic greatness <br />Cosmos stands secure against chaos through all time<br /><br />So may it bePaul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-24515333230601024162009-08-27T10:12:29.121+01:002009-08-27T10:12:29.121+01:00About the Flower Communion by Paul Oakley
About t...<a href="http://innerlight-radiantlife.blogspot.com/2009/06/flower-communion-emerging.html" rel="nofollow">About the Flower Communion by Paul Oakley</a><br /><br /><a href="http://andrewjbrown.blogspot.com/2009/06/flower-communion-hard-particularities.html" rel="nofollow">About the Flower Communion by Andrew Brown</a><br /><br />It's very specifically Unitarian, and very moving.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-70034220325748793172009-08-27T09:58:37.913+01:002009-08-27T09:58:37.913+01:00unitarian flower communion?unitarian flower communion?Thora Appelgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00429351427801029883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-34390565917395208352009-08-27T09:55:51.224+01:002009-08-27T09:55:51.224+01:00Yeah, it wouldn't fit in that line; but if I m...Yeah, it wouldn't fit in that line; but if I mention unity, I also try to emphasise diversity. That's why I like the Unitarian Flower Communion.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-18001500451932848622009-08-27T09:54:19.782+01:002009-08-27T09:54:19.782+01:00as in "create your reign of unity and diversi...as in "create your reign of unity and diversity now"?<br />hmm... on the one hand, i can see, theologically, where that could be preferable. on the other hand, the idea of a reign of unity doesn't bother me, depending on what it's a unity of, i suppose. a unity of love? great. a unity of enlightenment? sure. unity as conformity? well, not so much.<br />however, poetically i have to disagree. adding diversity makes it clumsy. ;)<br />when i was in jerusalem last december i got to hear this prayer sung in the aramaic at a little syrian church. it was an incomparable experience.Thora Appelgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00429351427801029883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-38925740514029381562009-08-27T09:38:30.521+01:002009-08-27T09:38:30.521+01:00Thanks Thora, glad you like it (and nice to know y...Thanks Thora, glad you like it (and nice to know you're still reading my blog).<br /><br />Yes I was thinking of the Aramaic versions when I wrote it.<br /><br />In the version you have posted above, I would want to change unity to "unity and diversity", though.Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-23536600698282281682009-08-27T09:15:55.492+01:002009-08-27T09:15:55.492+01:00i love it. it reminds me of my personal favorite v...i love it. it reminds me of my personal favorite version of the lord's prayer, loosely translated from the aramaic-<br /><br />Radiant One- <br />You shine within us, outside us,<br />even darkness shines<br />when we remember.<br /><br />Focus your light within us-<br />make it useful, as the rays of a beacon show the way.<br /><br />Create your reign of unity now<br />in our firey hearts<br />and willing minds.<br /><br />Your one desire then acts with ours;<br />as in all light, so in all forms.<br /><br />Grant us what we need each day<br />in bread and insight.<br /><br />Loose the cords of mistakes binding us,<br />as we release the strands we hold of others' guilt.<br /><br />Decieved neither by the outer nor the innner,<br />free us to walk your path with joy.<br /><br />Out of You, the vital force producing,<br />sustaining all life,<br />every virtue...may it be the ground from which all our actions grow.<br />Amen.Thora Appelgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00429351427801029883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-86127352327194094082009-08-26T23:11:12.363+01:002009-08-26T23:11:12.363+01:00Good idea!Good idea!Yewtreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028699564003381058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-118688459222979984.post-23097313973281283592009-08-26T23:05:22.865+01:002009-08-26T23:05:22.865+01:00Agreed 100%! And the name "New Testament"...Agreed 100%! And the name "New Testament" equally implies that same dispensationalism, since there is no new without a corresponding old. <br /><br />"Hebrew Bible" avoids issues of ownership and appropriation, IMO, neutrally stating only language of origin. And for similar neutral treatment for the Gospels, Acts, Epistles, and Apocalypse compendium, I frequently use "Greek Testament."Paul Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17426789386840488470noreply@blogger.com